Friday, December 15, 2006

Mac Tonnies explains the Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis

Author / blogger / essayist Mac Tonnies (After the Martian Apocalypse, Posthuman Blues) discusses the Cryptoterrestrial Hypothesis as an explanation for the UFO phenomenon in this clip from the interview I conducted with him in Kansas City for Best Evidence: Top 10 UFO Cases, in May, 2006.



Mac is currently working on a book, due for release sometime in 2007, about the CTH.

Paul Kimball

27 comments:

Ray said...

So what does the typical Cryptoterrestrial do all day?

No, that isn't a flip question. I asked it over at Mac's blog. If they're "nomadic," then that would help to break up their routine. To me, if such creatures are so advanced of us as we are from chimps, one could assume that they suffer from boredom and intellectual despair. What is that saying? "Against ennui even the gods struggle in vain."

Ray

Mac said...

Mac is currently working on a book, due for release sometime in 2007, about the CTH.

Well, I'm assuming that if I finish it reasonably soon then there might be a chance of a 2007 release. But I don't know that as a fact. (Happily, I do have a publisher.)

Mac said...

Ray--

It's definitely a fair question, and I'll address it on my blog soon.

Stan Friedman said...

I have a great deal of difficulty imagining how such a hidden "nomadic" civilization could construct high performance huge (half mile plus) mother ships and a multitude of high performance excusion modules in secrecy.Requires, mining, refining, construction, testing. Surely the major powers would all want to capture and use such facilities. Any evidence available?
Stan Friedman

Paul Kimball said...

I have a great deal of difficulty imagining how such a hidden "nomadic" civilization could construct high performance huge (half mile plus) mother ships and a multitude of high performance excusion modules in secrecy.Requires, mining, refining, construction, testing. Surely the major powers would all want to capture and use such facilities. Any evidence available?

Stan:

The easy answer would be that they don't - they are using some form of holographic technology, basically to create illusions.

Similarly, one could ask why aliens would send large, cumbersome ships (and why they would keep at it in secret for at least 60 years, and perhaps much longer than that), when Von Neumann probes would do the job much better?

Paul

Paul Kimball said...

So what does the typical Cryptoterrestrial do all day?

Watch crytpo TV, or surf crypto porn? ;-)

Paul

Mac said...

Stan--

I think some UFO encounters (not all, but a significant number) are subterfuge to make us think we're seeing ET technology. That's not to say some UFOs aren't genuinely ET -- but I can't shake the concept that we're playing into someone else's psy-ops campaign.

Nick Redfern said...

Mac

As you know from our email correspondence, I definitely think you have hit on an important, legitimate aspect of ufology with the crypto angle (other angles being Tulpas, and covers for classified, military experiments, in my mind).

I'm reminded of the various people in those old 50s and 60s cases who just conveniently stumbled upon "aliens" taking "soil samples" etc.

To me, that sounds like a classic "stage performance" to reinforce the idea of aliens checking out our biology, fauna, etc.

If they wanted to, they could easily do it without being seen.

But ensuring they _are_ seen and that the ET motif is reinforced, seems to be a part of the agenda.

Aaron Miller said...

Hey, is Mac Tonnies from Kansas City? I'm from KC, and I recognize that spot, its in front of Midwest Research Institute on Volker, I think.

You guys have got to let me buy you a beer if you're ever in town again.

Aaron

Paul Kimball said...

Aaron:

Mac is indeed from the greater KC area, and that clip is indeed shot in KC.

If I'm ever back in KC, I'll look you up! :-)

Paul

Mac said...

Aaron--

Good eye! :-)

MKJessup said...

Hey Paul -

Just ran across a quote from The Case For The UFO written by Morris K. Jessup back in 1955:

"It is no longer necessary to explain them as visitors from Mars, Venus, or Alpha Centauri. They are a part of our own immediate family -- a part of the earth-moon, binary-planet system. They didn't have to come all of those millions of miles from anywhere. They have been here for thousands of years. Whether we belong to them by possession, like cattle, or whether we belong to each other by common origin and association is an interesting problem, and one which may soon be settled if we keep our heads."

It would seem Mac is not the first to have suggested our visitors may in fact be co-inhabitants.

MKJ

David Biedny said...

Mac,

I think that this is a fascinating idea, as it seems to help explain some of the odd issues involving inter-dimensional aspects of beings appearing out of thin air, or the interest in human DNA that accompanies many cases.

Stan also makes a good point about the problems of constructing huge craft, but we have to consider the possibility that an advanced civilization might have developed a form of nanotechnology that would provide a shortcut to the physics of large scale mechanical construction. Advanced research into holographic memory and processing technology essentially negates many of the problems inherent in the limitations of miniaturization of electronic circuitry, theoretically providing storage space which far exceeds the density of current memory chips. If a race had the ability to exist in another dimensional plane concurrent with ours, perhaps they are indeed building large devices right under our noses - our current instrumentation would probably never detect their presence.

As far as the question of evidence, am I wrong in assuming that a hypothesis can be formulated based on the observation of certain attributes of a large number of UFO/alein cases, without the hard evidence that Stan requests? I'm not trying to downplay the importance of evidence, but in my own paranormal experiences, it would be difficult to state that the experiences were not valid for me, due to the lack of physical evidence that can be shown to others. I agree that if I want to convince others that my experiences are valid, I can probably make a stronger case with physical evidence, but this should not deter me from forming some theories about my experiences. Are we to immediately discard a theory if there is no immediate hard evidence to support it? I hope not.

I really look forward to further thoughts from you about this hypothesis, Mac, great stuff.

Lorenzo said...

I assume you have read Genesis (and other ancient texts) regarding human interaction with "extraterrestrial" creatures who were thrown down to the earth to be imprisoned here. Popular UFO lore has Alpha Draconis (brightest star in the constellation of the "Dragon" as the home of the "reptilian" ETs, and the Book of Revelations says that the Dragon (the ultimate reptile) led a revolt in "heaven", i.e., the sky or outer space, and was thrown down here. The infamous greys of UFO lore supposedly come from Zeta Reticuli (least bright visible star in the constellation of Retuculus, the Web or Net). And now we are all connected by that--diabolical?--
(World Wide) Web or (Inter)Net. What I am saying is that there is no incompatibility between the notions that the "aliens" are "ETs" and that they are also long-time terrestrial residents. After the war in "heaven", the losing side was imprisoned here. They are what mankind has experienced as demons, fairies, etc. This idea is not new. Many UFO researchers have developed similar ideas. What remains to be determined is the degree to which the ruling elites of this world have consciously sold out to these "demonic" or "extraterrestrial" beings. Are they (the ruling elite) willing leaders of mankind to destruction, or are they, like most of the rest of us, only dupes?

rlee said...

I think what Mac has to say in his CTH makes a lot of sense; at the same time, I appreciate his consideration that the CTH isn't neccessarily incompatible with the ETH.

R. Lee
Orange Orb
http://orangeorb.blogspot.com

Paul Kimball said...

R. Lee:

I just wish the more... ardent ETHers would show the same balance, and understand that nothing is proven, they are all just theories.

Conversely, it's important to remember that not all theories are equal in value. Only when Mac's book is out will we really be able to judge whether his holds water, or might be equal to or greater than the ETH in terms of probability.

Best regards,
Paul

MrTideman said...

This is ONE STEP BEYOND the hologram, as if such were the case, there would be no water splashing as seen and felt(?) like in those "Dragon's Triangle" incidents I saw on The Travel Channel the other night, Jan.__'07, to find this 5th sense of touch in Ch. ___ @ page #____ of Chs. Berlitz' book on this subject who I met at UNH/Durham, N.H. back in 1972. Happy New Year! JosephSHaas at hotmail dot com P.S. I think they are from another dimension, like what Claude Adkins said on that "The Monsters are due on Main Street" original Twilight Zone episode for New Year's: Fifth Columnists from the vast beyond! (;-) See also Rbt. Brown in Star Trek's "The Alternative Factor" (1967) over at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0708451/

Mike said...

New theory? Not really.

I've referred to this theoretical race in print many times as "Hidden Neighbors" and Subterrestrials (divergent evolutionary types, as opposed to other-dimensional Keelian ultraterrestrials).

I am glad to see this idea gaining more acceptance--including the manipulation and deception factor. But this idea of subterrestrials with an advanced civilization goes back even farther than Richard Shaver--It goes all the way back to Gilgamesh.

Recent writers and supporters of the non-paranormal, hidden race hypothesis have included Timothy Beckley, Brad Steiger, Richard Shaver, and several others.

My writings and radio interviews have stated that there are a)unknown (sub)terrestrial races that are subterranean in habitat, with advanced technology; b)unknown (sub)terrestrial races that use humanity as a genetic stock and for other uses, as well as prey on surface-world resources; c) unknown (sub)terrestrial species that explain many "cryptid" sightings and encounters; d) subterrestrial humanoids who use misdirection, technological illusions (cloaking and holography, among others) and so on to MISDIRECT our attention to a DECEPTION about "extraterrestrials"; and so on.

Nothing new here, but the idea appears to be spreading and catching on. Pretty soon it may even be "hip".

I do look forward to seeing Mac's thoughts on this topic.

-Mike

p.s., See

CAVERNS, CAULDRONS, AND CONCEALED CREATURES:
http://tinyurl.com/yqk4zb
http://www.hiddenmysteries.com/caverns/

RADIO INTERVIEWS:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mottimorph/Mott_Radio_Appearances.html

Paul Kimball said...

Mike:

Thanks for the comment.

I don't think anyone has suggested that this is a new idea -indeed, one of the reasons guys like Jerry Clark knee-jerk reaction against it is because they think it is too much like old ideas they consider to have been discredited.

Still, I think Mac is taking a new approach to it, and will have a different angle on things - incorporating many different disparate elements of the so-called "paranormal".

But we'll have to wait until his book is out to see. :-)

Best regards,
Paul

Mike said...

Paul,

Thanks.

I believe this is an idea of great importance, and I've felt somewhat like a voice "crying in the wilderness" for sometime.

I'm looking forward to seeing Mac's book on the topic. Other writers who have examined the possibility of very-real (non-paranormal, or non-ultraterrestrial) beings on our own planet probably feel the same!

Lance Oliver said...

As to the Earth origin for some reported weirdness...

I'm working along similar lines of research that points to the CT as a source of some UFO and alien sightings. However, in my own mind these beings may inhabit the seas and perhaps even cities far underground.

My basis for thinking seriously about this involves a possible connection between the recent wave of UFO and alien sightings in North Texas, coupled with the dramatically increased drilling into the Barnett Shale layer to extract natural gas.

Perhaps the noisy neighbors upstairs are us!

jeff_stewart said...

RIP...Mac, you will be missed!

Anonymous said...

I really like when people are expressing their opinion and thought. So I like the way you are writing

Trevor Lang Carter said...

In response to the question about why these beings would construct massive "motherships" I think any truly advanced technologically developed civ would have such a ship. For one, this type of ship would serve as an "ark." They would not be trapped on any single planetary body at the mercy of the cosmos.

I consider Vallee's concept of a "control system" most fascinating. You could reconcile this theory with the E.T. Hypothesis.

Let's assume that an advanced civilization is living somewhere in the Milky Way and has been around for millions of years, would they not have a 'system' in place to monitor any and all developing civilizations? Maybe they monitor civilizations that they seeded?

Just thoughts...

Ableredleader said...

I have a question for Mr. Tonnies.
I am writing a novel, and am using the term "cryptoterrestrial" to mean something a little different; namely Earth's legendary and mythological creatures, like dragons and faeries. Is that ok with you?

Ableredleader said...

A mothership would make sense. It could be used like the starship Enterprise, for exploration, by some other race who has mastered space travel a lot better than we have so far.

Anonymous said...

These people have been witness to something they cannot share. They will allways have contact with ufo and military surveilance. They become phychic in protecting mankind. they sense everything. and look after everything. Maybe they are trying to change thinking away from power greed and distruction. To our chance ends when we try to end everything threw war. will be done.