Assume for the sake of argument that the Extra-terrestrial Hypothesis is correct, and that at least a few UFO sightings are the result of extraterrestrial visitation to Earth.
Are they friendly?
Many ETH advocates would say "yes, of course they're friendly" - they run the gamut from the more serious types, like Stan Friedman, who talks of the day when we may qualify for some benevolent "Cosmic Kindergarten" of higher awareness, and the less serious types, such as Steven Greer and most of the exopols.
They usually base this second assumption on a line of reasoning that goes something like this: aliens are obviously more advanced than us, in order to be able to get here from "there", so they must have survived their own nuclear age, or equivalent, which means they must be peaceful.
This kind of wishful thinking has pervaded "ufology" ever since the days of the original Contactees, and their pals the Space Brothers.
But why would an advanced civilization necessarily be benevolent, or peaceful?
Perhaps they did indeed survive their nuclear age, but for a different reason - they fought a nuclear war, and someone won. It could have happened here. Oh, sure, it wouldn't be a win for the people at the time, but in the long term, depending upon who your leaders are, maybe it would be a win in a strategic sense. Wipe out the rest of the Earth, and wait it out underground for a while, or something like that. There are people who would see in that scenario a victory, and in the long run, say a thousand years or so, maybe they would be right.
Or maybe that advanced civilization is a technologically-based fascistic society, where human (er... alien) rights have been slowly done away with, not by war, but by the same kind of slow erosion that we sometimes seem to be dealing with today.
Or maybe they had their equivalent of a Second World War, and the bad guys won. It could have happened here.
Or maybe their species is just plain bad, or at the very least amoral, as far as we would be concerned.
Or... well, you get the picture.
Ufologists aren't the only ones making this inherently naive assumption - anyone sending a signal out into the galactic ether looking for contact is making the same assumption, based on the same wishful thinking... and someday could be in for the same rude awakening.
For those who think I'm too pessimistic, I can say only that I've found it wise to live my life by the following maxim: better to be pleasantly surprised than rudely awakened.
Paul Kimball
16 comments:
I'm with on on that one.
Paul,
With regard to UFOs (and other imponderables) most people usually expect what they want to. The opposite of your example are those who are certain that an alien takeover is imminent or has already happened.
I have maintained for a long time that the phenomenon appears to be so ephemeral that it is still premature to assign many of its manifestations to an ET civilization with any sort of recognizable intent towards us.
What happened to your "Omega" (not that I'm complaining)?
Greg
I think it would be very difficult to call it one way or the other - and even more so, and for the same reasons, it would probably be completely wrong to include all Aliens in the same sentence...
We really know nothing about them at all, to call this either way. Like you I would rather be pleasantly surprised thought
I'm not sure we are using the correct analogy. The relationship between us and 'them' is more akin to the one between a researcher and his efforts to follow the progress of an ant colony.
'They' could be so far in advance of us that 'they' lack the ability to have empathy for such low life forms as humans. For them to treat us as equals would be akin to us trying to hold a conversation with an ant in our ant colony; or a goldfish in our bowl.
Perhaps they simply lack empathy all together or share other human emotions. There is no reason to expect them to act by the same social norms as we do.
Of course, their behavior bears this out. The phenomenon itself is responsible for the cover-up. It treats the experiencers poorly and, in the case of alleged alien abductions, with callous disregard.
The fact that the universal response to contact with these alleged beings is absolute and abject terror is probably a bit of a clue.
In the larger view, these encounters have influenced human culture by fostering irrational belief systems as well as spawning religions and cults.
Over and over again I am simply amazed when I witness those who cry out the loudest for 'disclosure' from some imaginary governmental entity yet are always the same people who, inexplicably, believe the UFOs themselves are benevolent forces of peace.
At what point do these people not realize that the real UFO cover-up, the cover-up that really matters the most, is being conducted by the UFO occupants themselves?
They could fly a UFO in front of the CNN building in Atlanta tomorrow for 10 minutes and put an end to the entire problem of 'disclosure' at a moments notice.
I have no doubt that they have this power, and I have no doubt that the fact that they refuse to do so, is part of a specific agenda of disinformation, subterfuge, and deception.
Until the UFOs end the cover-up and begin to treat us as vaguely equal conscious beings, I think we should maintain the utmost caution in accepting their presence as benign.
I know most in the UFO community prefer to distance themselves from the occult, and I can appreciate that sentiment. However, let us not forget that the occult may, at times, have some real lessons for us to learn.
And, one of the most important lessons of the occult is this one:
"Do not summon up that which you cannot put down."
Every time Steven Greer goes out into a cornfield and practices occult ritual magick to summon up his self-professed ET presence I wince not only at his stupidity but also his naivety.
When Steven Greer humiliates himself by prostrating before these non-human intelligences I am appalled at the sheer stupidity of it all.
"Do not summon up that which you cannot put down; and if it shows up anyway, well RUN!"
Welcome back. We missed you.
...and just in the nick of time, too!
Thank you John for the good laugh.
This made my day :)
"Do not summon up that which you cannot put down; and if it shows up anyway, well RUN!"
I was fortunate enough to be on 3 CSETI trainings where amazing stuff happened, and none of what you described happened.
And by the way, there is nothing occult in remote viewing, the US military used it in the 70s for spying if I'm correct.
Let me comment on this now:
They could fly a UFO in front of the CNN building in Atlanta tomorrow for 10 minutes and put an end to the entire problem of 'disclosure' at a moments notice.
Tell me John, what would happen if the disclosure comes from them and not from our desire to enter a peaceful contact with them?
Wouldn't this be causing chaos more than anything? Wouldn't this be the perfect occasion for the covert government to start a full blown fake ET attack on earth? Wouldn't this represent an imposed reality on us?
What if they don't want to impose this, and would prefer us to be ready and demand the contact? Wouldn't this be more appropriate? I think it would.
You see, it is all a question of perspective.
In some 16 years of field work, the CSETI team, never, ever encounter issues with the ETs. It always came from human groups.
>>I was fortunate enough to be on 3 CSETI trainings where amazing stuff happened, and none of what you described happened.
To date nothing has come out of the CSETI training other than lining the pockets of Steven Greer and generating a whole bunch of New Age followers. No concrete evidence has ever been produced from these CSETI 'contacts'.
I also consider it a bit embarrassing for human beings to prostrate themselves before this phenomenon. Do you have no sense of self respect? Why do you do it?
I'm embarrassed for you. How humiliating it is that you would sell out the human race by bowing down and praying to these entities.
If you do not think performing the CSETI protocol is an occult act, akin to summoning demons, well all I can say is that you must not know much about occult rituals. There is no difference, whether you are aware of that fact or not.
You are performing a ritual in an attempt to conjour up disincarnate intelligences. And you don't think that is an occult act?
>>And by the way, there is nothing occult in remote viewing, the US military used it in the 70s for spying if I'm correct.
Hmmm...you have it backwards. Because the military practiced occult acts in the 1970's for spying doesn't make an ancient tradition somehow not part of the occult lore. It does not 'legitimize' it in some way.
>>Tell me John, what would happen if the disclosure comes from them and not from our desire to enter a peaceful contact with them?
I believe that if a UFO hovered outside of the CNN building for about 10 minutes, the result would be almost inconsequential. It might fuel the news cycle for a day, maybe two, and that would be the end of it.
The believers would feel vindicated. The skeptics would claim hoax. And the religious would choose to believe, or not believe, whatever they wanted to based on no evidence, just like they always do.
>>Wouldn't this be causing chaos more than anything?
I doubt very seriously any chaos would ensue. The population has been far too inculcated in UFO lore for it to create much of a sensation.
>>Wouldn't this be the perfect occasion for the covert government to start a full blown fake ET attack on earth?
Now you are talking nonsense. This relates to what I said about the interest in UFOs leading to irrational belief systems. I can tell right now I wouldn't want to hear what you have to say about 9-11 either.
>>Wouldn't this represent an imposed reality on us?
The reality of UFOs is already established in my opinion. Based on decades of sightings, witness testimony, and accumulated data. Anyone who bothers to research the topic can learn this.
The only difference new evidence would make (i.e. hypothetical sighting on CNN) is that it would present fresh evidence that might make more people in the mainstream media come to grips with the reality of the phenomenon.
The fact that the UFOs themselves continue the cover-up is the problem.
In Steven Greers many attempts to 'vector in ET craft' he has yet to produce any physical or compelling evidence in any way that could be used to further the dialogue on this topic.
No, instead, he just gets good vibes from his alien space brothers and comes away with no evidence, no proof, and a lot more cult-like followers of his new age pyscho-babble. He dismisses any experience with the phenomenon that does not match his preconceived notion of loving ET space brothers.
Of course, I could be wrong....but I don't think I am.
>>In some 16 years of field work, the CSETI team, never, ever encounter issues with the ETs.
This 'field work' (literally, chanting, visualizing, and meditating in a field) has never come away with any tangible proof of any contact experience that would or could change the mind of even one skeptic. In fact the opposite has happened, as the protocols involved are so embarrassing, and so humiliating to the human race, that it has become a source of derision and ridicule; making a mockery of any serious inquiry into this phenomenon.
What happened to your skeptical nature? Why do you have a hard-on for space aliens? Why can you only find meaning in your life if aliens are loving space brothers? What happened to your sense of caution? What happened to your self-respect?
Why are you so willing to act in the role as a traitor to the human race? Do you have no dignity?
We are human beings, we are not puppets, toys, or playthings for these disincarnate intelligences. We have no need for them in our lives, and shouldn't wish them into existence.
The human race should live or die, sink or swim, on its own and these alien intelligences need to either show themselves openly, or get the hell out of our airspace; one way or the other. But sucking up to them, praying to them, worshiping them, that doesn't accomplish anything other than reduce you to a sniveling sycophantic idiot who has replaced one religion with another.
Of course, I could be wrong....but for now I remain pro-human race and anti-deceptive alien intelligences until I see evidence to the contrary.
John
| No concrete evidence has ever been produced from these CSETI 'contacts'.
If you want proof, get them yourself, that's what I did and I'm satisfied. Why would I care to demonstrate to someone that poses judgment without making the effort to understand? Just a serious waste of time.
| You are performing a ritual in an attempt to conjour up disincarnate intelligences. And you don't think that is an occult act?
Thanks for making my point, we have done nothing of occult on any of the 3 trainings. Since we are using advanced techniques to communicate. Who says you have to use electronics to do so? Maybe you think so cause you are stuck in your scientific dogma, like million other people.
And you don't know me and you dare insult me and my research?
|I believe that if a UFO hovered outside of the CNN building for about 10 minutes, the result would be almost inconsequential. It might fuel the news cycle for a day, maybe two, and that would be the end of it.
You've got to be kidding...No comments :)
|Now you are talking nonsense. This relates to what I said about the interest in UFOs leading to irrational belief systems. I can tell right now I wouldn't want to hear what you have to say about 9-11 either.
Then we agree that we disagree on the extra-terrestrial phenomena and 9-11.
| What happened to your skeptical nature?
Why would I be skeptical, when I experienced? Don't you get it? I went, saw, came back home, gathered few guys and reproduced the protocols, and it worked. Simple as that.
|What happened to your sense of caution? What happened to your self-respect?
I have to say, I did take a risk on the first trip, but that went better then I expected. That's the reason I went on for another amazing trip in Mt Shasta.
|We are human beings, we are not puppets, toys, or playthings for these disincarnate intelligences.
Wow! I think we are not on the same wavelenght here again, but that's fine...
|But sucking up to them, praying to them, worshiping them, that doesn't accomplish anything other than reduce you to a sniveling sycophantic idiot who has replaced one religion with another.
I wonder where you got the impression there is any worshiping happening. The CSETI team has been promoting a bilateral relation, on the same foot, with the same rules, respect and understanding.
You are making stuff up now?
You speak like an un-educated man, that hasn't done his homework. I'm sorry but you are a sad thing, and hope you grow out of your current situation.
Why lie?
1 photo of a vectored in space craft please. Just 1 photo...
link it in this comments section for us all to see.
1 photo.
Richard,
I stand corrected. Please show me the films which document UFOs, at close range, landing and with ET's exiting the craft as well as your tour of the interior of the vehicle. Please show me the artifacts, documents, and other evidence from your cultural exchange during the CSETI protocol.
What, you say you don't have any evidence like that? What, you say you saw some lights in the sky and heard voices in your head?
Where is the evidence for these encounters during your CSETI experiences? Why does Steven Greer not allow people to video tape his training exercises? Why does he make them sign a non-disclosure agreement? Why does Steven Greer make personal claims in his autobiographical book that he has Christ like powers?
How odd that your response is that I should participate in the ritual if I want to have my 'proof'. No, I prefer my proof in a more concrete form. I shouldn't have to give Steven Greer my money, sign a non-disclosure agreement, and meditate in a corn-field for my 'proof'. A close range daylight video showing both the exterior and *interior* of a craft and occupants will suffice. Just take a camera with you the next time you meditate with your space brothers.
Why don't you ask your space brothers to fly in front of the CNN building tomorrow for about 10 minutes, when that happens I will be duly impressed.
John
Paul, I wholeheartedly agree with your post. My own view of the matter is that if ET existence and visitation be proved, that our stance ought to be one of extreme caution. There is no rational basis for assuming empathy from extraterrestrials.
And welcome back to the pit, sir.
First: There are no photos of ET craft that would satisfy you. None.
There are no photos of ET creatures that would satisfy you either. I could provide you with a full high res quality if the interior of an ET spacecraft and you still call hoax, just like the rest of the debunkers out there.
Second: I didn't go to the CSETI expedition to gather proof for the world. I went for myself. I have nothing to prove you. I was not appointed by any organization to offer you solid proof of their existence. And it would be again, a serious waste of time to try to provide you with such evidence cause you wouldn't be satisfied with any of them. You'll have to meet them face to face to be happy.
Not going to happen, especially with an attitude like yours, might as well forget it.
Third: I never said you should join a CSETI expedition. You can do it yourself in your own backyard, but you are so damn stubborn, this will never happen, would it?
Forth: I have written a full article on some of the things that happened to us during the CSETI Training, but I very much doubt you will be satisfied with it, or will even bother reading it.
Fifth: There is no way the ET will show up above any major cities, this could be taken as an act of aggression. I'm convinced that's not their motivations.
The non-disclosure agreement is a method to ensure you will do good with the material you gathered during the expedition. I had no problems with CSETI doing a presentation of my expeditions. As long as they know you are a good guy with good intentions, it's fine.
Now if you were found to abuse the material, this would give them tools to take action against you.
There are no ways I could have caught half the events that happened over there. Things are happening too fast, and a lot of them at too high altitude. I know some people have filmed during hours and have great footage. I don't. I don't care either. I tried, but after the 3rd days, I focused entirely on the experience and decided to ditch the gear. Way more fun and more enjoyable that way.
In the end, i went for myself, to have a good time, get some question answered, and see something different...
Richard,
You are not correct in assuming that I am a debunker or that I wouldn't accept video evidence backed up by solid witness testimony.
I happen to believe there is a legitimate UFO phenomenon. I base this belief, not on the antics of Dr. Steven Greer but rather in spite of them. My belief in a legitimate UFO phenomenon rests on cases like the Lonnie Zamora sighting and a few others that are equally well documented and accompanied by physical trace evidence.
My point is that Greer, nor any of this followers, has ever managed to produce evidence that comes even close to that of the solid cases that form the best UFO evidence to date.
I also believe the UFO phenomenon is almost entirely 'unknown' and I also believe it is multi-faceted (meaning it is no one single thing). I base this belief not only on the wide variety of phenomenon involved but also the more esoteric cases such as Fatima and Symington.
However, the propaganda coming from Greer is one of certain and unquestioning belief in benevolent ET space brothers.
Do not assume I don't know what I'm talking about; I have had an interest in the UFO topic for decades and I have been following the antics of Dr. Steven Greer for most of that time (having purchased and read all of his books as well as engaged many of his followers online).
John
If we're only open to solid evidence, what is that? What is "acceptable evidence"?
As for assigning motives to these alleged ET people, that is probably a tad premature. Obviously, possession of advanced technology does not equate to possession of superior ethics etc etc etc.
Nothing has changed on this planet in thousands of years and our tech is better than ever. Of course, critics will say that I'm just projecting my primitive human ways onto them. Maybe..but what else is there right now?
Broadcasting our signals into space also seems naive to me. We have to be cautious as we proceed here. It's not alarmist to say that we have no idea who we will attract.
Let's assume that Dr Greer is indeed in contact with some form of ET race(s). The playing field is very uneven. How can he know for sure who is speaking with and what they represent. politically/economically/morally-speaking?
All he is seeing is apparently a craft. That's literally the smallest tip of the iceberg. To draw a crude analogy - that's like the Third Reich sending a lone Luftwaffe pilot over to an incredibly old and cut-off tribe in the Amazon and claiming that "We only want to help".
I'm not suggesting that we are being visited by genocidal space fascists but we need a little more info before we start getting into diplomacy.
Rich
My own feeling is that if the ETH is correct, then they're probably so much more advanced than us that they don't really give a sh*t about us one way or the other. This is probably just a rest stop for them on the way to somewhere else.
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