tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post4564904500526292995..comments2023-08-15T01:24:39.187-03:00Comments on The Other Side of Truth: The Other Side of Truth - UFO Hall of ShamePaul Kimballhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comBlogger28125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-72182705992367798552007-07-19T05:19:00.000-03:002007-07-19T05:19:00.000-03:00This is a tough call. I can't help but feel naive...This is a tough call. I can't help but feel naive for wondering if the better half of this list don't deserve such a scathing award. Anonymous does have a point about Applegate (Though he/she doesn't have to be belligerent about it).<BR/>Santilli is another who's name shouldn't be mentioned when discussing ufos.<BR/>Shostak would probably relish the thought of being on this list.<BR/><BR/>I think this award is best served to Condon. Unlike the others on the list, he was in position of authority and influence; endorsed by the Air Force and a representative of a concerned public. The results of "The Condon Report" is report is not only legendary, but a most disturbing disapointment.ZILLIS-mediahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05495255973940367380noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-14402201334712521532007-07-17T22:07:00.000-03:002007-07-17T22:07:00.000-03:00Speaking of a lack of originality, it's "Anonymous...Speaking of a lack of originality, it's "Anonymous", with his jealous trolling.<BR/><BR/>Still, a vote is a vote.Paul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-80811427291508520342007-07-17T21:45:00.000-03:002007-07-17T21:45:00.000-03:00I vote for Paul Kimball due to his lack of origina...I vote for Paul Kimball due to his lack of originality (who doesn't have a "top ten list" nowadays?) and his lack of research (his films are just the same ol' stories we've heard before with nothing new to them) in his films.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-85489073499658911212007-07-16T20:24:00.000-03:002007-07-16T20:24:00.000-03:00Paul :Professional wrestling legend Bruno Sammarti...Paul :<BR/><BR/>Professional wrestling legend Bruno Sammartino says that "if a Hall of Fame doesn't have an actual building, then it isn't a real Hall of Fame". <BR/><BR/>How do you respond to these allegations ?<BR/><BR/>Signed,<BR/>a concerned voterbinnallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11829857721680358685noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-6834390080383925952007-07-16T19:23:00.000-03:002007-07-16T19:23:00.000-03:00"I apologize Paul; Mr. L and I don't need to be bi...<A>"I apologize Paul; Mr. L and I don't need to be bickering here."</A><BR/><BR/>Well... we did actually. Paul Kimball's board has some small notoriety and popularity and is read by the critical. It was on that board... where you made an assertion with smug confidence and comfortable sincerity that Philip Klass was in any way a positive force in Ufology. <BR/><BR/>That is a position that I cannot allow to stand without contention, as my recollection of history is nowhere near what you had laid out for same. <BR/><BR/>We differ, Sir, and that difference needed explication where what provoked it was proposed.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate Mr. Kimball's indulgence in the matter.<BR/><BR/>alienview@roadrunner.com<BR/>> www.AlienView.net<BR/>>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/<BR/>>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.comAlfred Lehmberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028589165474437987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-83017127839078174972007-07-16T11:06:00.000-03:002007-07-16T11:06:00.000-03:00OE:I don't mind you and Mr. Lehmberg "bickering" h...OE:<BR/><BR/>I don't mind you and Mr. Lehmberg "bickering" here, so long as it's about substantive issues. What I object to are personal attacks / bickering. Nothing useful comes of that, and everyone involved looks bad. It's one of the reasons I called a "truce" with Kal Korff - because I found that I couldn't engage with him on a substantive level, and I was getting dragged into the personal stuff, which, contrary to popular opinion, I don't like or enjoy.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, no harm, no foul.<BR/><BR/>PaulPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-74528473392313306562007-07-16T10:59:00.000-03:002007-07-16T10:59:00.000-03:00I apologize Paul; Mr. L and I don't need to be bic...I apologize Paul; Mr. L and I don't need to be bickering here. <BR/><BR/>Mr. Lehmberg can always contact me if he likes and he can comment the Odd Empire weblog for the time being. <BR/><BR/>OE <BR/>http://oddempire.orgThe Odd Emperorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09127387562675002576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-71313393109489136322007-07-16T10:20:00.000-03:002007-07-16T10:20:00.000-03:00A.L. and O.E. -Enough!I've said it before, and I'l...A.L. and O.E. -<BR/><BR/>Enough!<BR/><BR/>I've said it before, and I'll say it again - if you guys want to have at each other, do it at your own blogs / sites. Please.<BR/><BR/>Further personal attacks / comments won't be published.<BR/><BR/>Paul KimballPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-26790793763938592022007-07-16T10:07:00.000-03:002007-07-16T10:07:00.000-03:00Way to go so deliciously and predictably personal,...Way to go so deliciously and predictably <I>personal</I>, Mr. Pettingill. The ball thuds down, decidedly, on your side of the net, eh? Humiliatingly so, when you think about it. You don't want to argue the irreducible injustice and civil rights abuse(can't actually) and so are forced into a reducible (if flaccid) AH upon myself. Lovely.<BR/><BR/>Kudos, though, on getting my address half correct, and refraining from your usual denial with regard to being Mr. Pettingill, at all.<BR/><BR/>As to your weak and insipid, too convenient, and so specious charge? Taste is in <I>your</I> mouth only, Mr. Pettingill. I'm in that world "apart" from you, after all, and confidently comfortable there. How terrible for you that you are not.<BR/><BR/>alienview@roadrunner.com<BR/>> www.AlienView.net<BR/>>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/<BR/>>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.comAlfred Lehmberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028589165474437987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-33834735492247459622007-07-15T12:27:00.000-03:002007-07-15T12:27:00.000-03:00Alfred Lehmberg said..."He was no legitimate skept...Alfred Lehmberg said...<BR/><BR/><I>"He was no legitimate skeptic. He was a back shooting, corner sniping, hate mongering old bastard and this world is much improved with his passing."</I><BR/><BR/>Well Alfred, you and I are a world apart. I don't wish people to die and I do not as a rule delight in the passing of people, even those I dislike. <BR/><BR/>Saying that Mr. Lehmberg; you seem to be well on the way to resemble your very own description of Mr. Klass, albeit in a less skeptical sense.The Odd Emperorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09127387562675002576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-8464645076961297452007-07-13T18:52:00.000-03:002007-07-13T18:52:00.000-03:00You know, Mr. Pettingill, for someone as concerned...You know, Mr. Pettingill, for someone as concerned as you have recently demonstrated with regard to privacy, the right to be unhindered in your lawful affairs, the right not to be whisper campaigned and harrassed... Klass was a man employing all those things and more against men so far above him in the evolutionary plane that he was well and _truly_ a reptile in comparison... and even performing a reptilian act at his passing.<BR/><BR/>I won't mince words, Mr. Pettingill. He drove James McDonald to suicide, tried to deny Stanton Friedman a living AND a place to live, and he employed every possible contrived and duplicitous mechanism he could to keep UFOs from getting a real hearing in the aggregate consciousness of lay society.<BR/><BR/>Piss on him. No praise for dead sons of bitches here.<BR/><BR/>He was no constructive curmudgeon. He was no honored opposition. He was no legitimate skeptic. He was a back shooting, corner sniping, hate mongering old bastard and this world is much improved with his passing.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure Dr. Mengele has a logical booster capable of making a silk purse out of _that_ sow's ear.<BR/><BR/>alienview@roadrunner.com<BR/>> www.AlienView.net<BR/>>> AVG Blog -- http://alienviewgroup.blogspot.com/<BR/>>>> U F O M a g a z i n e -- www.ufomag.comAlfred Lehmberghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028589165474437987noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-39891812684639070822007-07-13T12:49:00.000-03:002007-07-13T12:49:00.000-03:00Terry said... I liked Klass. Nothing wrong with...Terry said...<BR/><BR/> <I> I liked Klass. Nothing wrong with being skeptical.</I><BR/><BR/>What! Yes there is! ;) <BR/><BR/>Seriously, most proponents of the hysterical branches of Ufology will tell you that Klass was some species of fanatic. Hell bent to discredit and scoff at the "mountains" of evidence proving that aliens routinely visit Earth. Klass for his part steadfastly asserted that there really is no good evidence, that human testimony is not very reliable and hard evidence will be needed to establish the ETH once and for all. <BR/><BR/>My opinion is that this sort of thinking helps Ufology, even if it tends to filter out most data that ETH proponents think is significant. Anything that prevents Ufology from becoming more of a religion is IMO helpful.The Odd Emperorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09127387562675002576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-84070311295845083232007-07-13T05:09:00.000-03:002007-07-13T05:09:00.000-03:00Where to begin?Richard L.--read Greer's "Forbidden...Where to begin?<BR/><BR/>Richard L.--read Greer's "Forbidden Knowledge" with a critical eye and do some research, and see if you feel the same way. <BR/><BR/>What about Whitley Strieber? He's certainly passed off fiction for "truth." As has Budd Hopkins and David Jacobs. <BR/><BR/>I'd also add a couple government agencies, like the CIA and the USAF's intelligence branch. <BR/><BR/>Moore's involvement with Doty and the whole MJ-12 fiction and the Bennewitz affair is sufficient grounds to include old wild Bill.<BR/><BR/>I voted for Condon--the last best hope for a serious public investigation with government resources at a critical juncture was destroyed by his nearly criminal ignorance, arrogance, manipulation, and denial of the reality of the large percentage of true unknowns in the "Condon" report and he did the worst job imaginable while creating a transparent whitewash as a result.<BR/>A tremendous loss at a crucial time. <BR/><BR/>Unforgivable bastard, IMHO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-50779490159215021842007-07-12T17:40:00.000-03:002007-07-12T17:40:00.000-03:00I have to say, I wasn't impressed to see Dr. Steve...I have to say, I wasn't impressed to see Dr. Steven Greer in there.<BR/><BR/>I had the chance to participate to a CSETI Training in 2006, in Mt. Shasta. And it was a life changing experience.<BR/><BR/>I really don't appreciate the personality trashing without any foundations.<BR/><BR/>You sir, will need to do your homework, because you are deeply mistaken on Steven.<BR/><BR/>Richard Lalancette<BR/>Ottawa, Ontario, CanadaAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17115204470638307973noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-86155532809906859032007-07-11T22:38:00.000-03:002007-07-11T22:38:00.000-03:00Jeez, Paul - I couldn't even begin to vote on some...Jeez, Paul - I couldn't even begin to vote on something like that. To start with, it's a toss-up between "deeply misguided" and "total slime," and that's a hard choice from the get -go. Plus: no Salla, no Webre, no Viggiani. What's with that?<BR/><BR/>Secondly, it's not like Royce is going to add any of these people, anyway. For whatever reason, the Hall of Shame stalled. Sort of like ufology.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-15708824848522133182007-07-11T20:07:00.000-03:002007-07-11T20:07:00.000-03:00If you want to include a "myriad of failings and m...If you want to include a "myriad of failings and mistakes" as your criteria for "shame," why have John Keel and Gray Barker on your "fame" list? Both made errors, and Keel never changed his opinions when presented with evidence to the contrary. Barker knowingly disseminated false information to sell books.<BR/><BR/>If, as you seem to be suggesting, "fame" is a measure of both influence and hard work in the field, Moore made the effort to infiltrate the government disinfo game and make ufology aware of this, of which it was blissfully unaware until 1989. Along with Friedman, he also brought a level of research and skepticism to examining released documents, on which he was willing to change his opinion when new information became available. Most researchers crow about their discoveries long after they have been proven to be bogus.Greg Bishophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06928853660098224055noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-26078947118808502152007-07-11T16:58:00.000-03:002007-07-11T16:58:00.000-03:00You forgot to include Jaime Maussan.You forgot to include Jaime Maussan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-86885497314978910682007-07-11T13:50:00.000-03:002007-07-11T13:50:00.000-03:00I vote for Erich von Daniken !I vote for Erich von Daniken !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-7327494452795090072007-07-11T12:56:00.000-03:002007-07-11T12:56:00.000-03:00Amazing thing that Klass and Condon have more vote...Amazing thing that Klass and Condon have more votes than Applewhite, who was directly responsible for the deaths of a dozen people.<BR/>Kimball, by including Applewhite you made the choice obvious for any reasoned person -- anyone who doesn't choose him over the others has obviously lost contact with reality.<BR/>Exclude him, and you may have a more interesting poll.<BR/>OTOH, by including him you may show just how much the voters may be insane.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-55671833213073086652007-07-11T12:51:00.000-03:002007-07-11T12:51:00.000-03:00I liked Klass. Nothing wrong with being skeptical....I liked Klass. Nothing wrong with being skeptical.<BR/><BR/>Why isn't Art on this list? for helping to spread the more dingbat notions in the field? Or Jeff Rense for mixing it in with that other blather he promotes and thus discrediting the field?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08433445891749018712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-78973177281905872322007-07-11T08:24:00.000-03:002007-07-11T08:24:00.000-03:00Hector -- I will suggest that you read Greg Bishop...Hector -- I will suggest that you read Greg Bishop's book, "Project Beta."<BR/><BR/>Paul -- Despite later events, wasn't it Bill Moore who first started breaking the Roswell story with Stanton? I am not saying he deserves to be in the hall of fame or off the hall of shame, but as I remember he did do various things before the whole Bennewitz saga that were noteworthy.LesleyinNMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07650512451759278182noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-58518976286937026842007-07-11T07:29:00.000-03:002007-07-11T07:29:00.000-03:00Applewhite killed people, nuff said!Applewhite killed people, nuff said!The Odd Emperorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09127387562675002576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-89008628470494759652007-07-11T06:09:00.000-03:002007-07-11T06:09:00.000-03:00Is Moore on the list because he really did everyth...Is Moore on the list because he really did everything he claimed to Bennewitz, or is he on the list because he fabricated that whole story? <BR/><BR/>(all I've got to go by is his Wikipedia entry, I'd never heard this story before)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-84833274047236687132007-07-11T05:06:00.000-03:002007-07-11T05:06:00.000-03:00Greg:I know Moore is a friend of yours, but to sug...Greg:<BR/><BR/>I know Moore is a friend of yours, but to suggest he belongs on the "Fame" list is a bit much. Honestly, what do you think he did that would remotely qualify him for that, or excuse his myriad failings and mistakes?<BR/><BR/>PaulPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-15318507810945366752007-07-11T04:36:00.000-03:002007-07-11T04:36:00.000-03:00If you're going to put Moore on the "shame" list, ...If you're going to put Moore on the "shame" list, he should be on the "fame" one as well. Ditto for Gray Barker.<BR/><BR/>Since you didn't have Sean Morton on the list, I of course voted for Greer.Greg Bishophttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06928853660098224055noreply@blogger.com