tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post113082714947751805..comments2023-08-15T01:24:39.187-03:00Comments on The Other Side of Truth: A Code of Conduct for UfologyPaul Kimballhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1131097847854326552005-11-04T05:50:00.000-04:002005-11-04T05:50:00.000-04:00Hi Paul,You wrote "As for Joe's group, is there a ...Hi Paul,<BR/><BR/>You wrote "As for Joe's group, is there a website I can check out?"<BR/><BR/>Sure.<BR/><BR/>http://www.smartgroups.com/group/group.cfm?gid=292370<BR/><BR/>I think you have to go through a brief sign up process to access the messages (but you can set "group settings" to "no email - web retrieval only" if you want, so it's not much of an imposition).<BR/><BR/>No bill this time.<BR/><BR/>All the best,<BR/><BR/>IsaacIsaac Koihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04619755188522396631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1131087322981175032005-11-04T02:55:00.000-04:002005-11-04T02:55:00.000-04:00Isaac:I would add that no apology was ever forthco...Isaac:<BR/><BR/>I would add that no apology was ever forthcoming from Ms. Connors - who does good work, but undermines it with her problems in dealing with others - and EBK never required one, or took any action against her. Thanks for the corrective, however - I have altered the original post to reflect this. Just don't bill me by the hour!<BR/><BR/>As for Joe's group, is there a website I can check out?<BR/><BR/>PaulPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1131065493612442972005-11-03T20:51:00.000-04:002005-11-03T20:51:00.000-04:00Isaac:Oh, you crazy lawyers! :-)I suppose I should...Isaac:<BR/><BR/>Oh, you crazy lawyers! :-)<BR/><BR/>I suppose I should have made my point clearer - EBK did nothing about it other than offer an apology for having run it. There was no chastisement or punishment meted out to Ms. Connors, as there was with Mr. Jay. And this was for something that EBK actually posted, as opposed to something that only appeared on UFO Updates because Mr. Lehmberg specifically requested EBK to run it there.<BR/><BR/>At the time, I considered EBK's response sufficient. In the larger context, however, it is not. I was too kind the first time round (it was only one line in Connors' post that appalled him? The entire post was appalling).<BR/><BR/>EBK isn't a bad guy - but he shows bad judgment, and he plays favourites with people who don't deserve it.<BR/><BR/>PaulPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1131025389568189522005-11-03T09:43:00.000-04:002005-11-03T09:43:00.000-04:00Hi Paul, You wrote:"... Errol, you did nothing abo...Hi Paul, <BR/><BR/>You wrote:<BR/>"... Errol, you did nothing about Ms. Connor's remarks re: Rich, ... Again, that is wrong. You are employing a double standard."<BR/><BR/>The statement that EBK "did nothing about Ms Connor's remarks" did not accord with my recollection. I did a quick Google search to refresh my memory and found the blog entry below(coincidentally from your own blog!).<BR/><BR/>So, in addition to stating that Wendy's email "appalled" him, EBK offered his "deepest apologies". (From memory, I think he also deleted Wendy's email from the Updates archive). OK, I understand if you think he should have gone further in sanctioning Wendy. But I think saying that he "did nothing about Ms Connor's remarks" is not entirely fair or accurate. <BR/><BR/>(By the way, I'm sure Joe McGonagle and others (including myself) would welcome you on Joe's Ufologyinuk List, which discusses general issues relating to ufology as well as UK specific matters.) <BR/><BR/>Kind Regards,<BR/><BR/>Isaac<BR/><BR/><BR/>http://redstarfilms.blogspot.com/2005/06/ebks-apology.html<BR/><BR/>"In my post yesterday "The Good & The Bad in Ufology" I wondered why Errol Bruce-Knapp at UFO Updates would publish Wendy Connors's shameful personal attack on Rich Reynolds. Proving that he is a stand-up guy, EBK apologised today at Updates."<BR/><BR/>" 'Yesterday, while talking on the phone and doing List mail, I inadvertantly posted a submission by Wendy Connors that contained a line that, when I read it, appalled me. Distracted, I thought I'd removed it in my text editor, before forwarding it to the List. It wasn't until this morning that a response to the post alerted me to my screw-up. To Rich Reynolds, my deepest apologies - Wendy's submission was not intended by me to be publicly posted, intact. Errol Bruce-KnappMosderator - UFO UpDates' "<BR/><BR/>www.virtuallystrange.net/ufo/updates/2005/jun/m04-013.shtml<BR/><BR/>"This is why EBK is part of the "good" in ufology."<BR/><BR/>"As for Connors, one can only wonder if she'll issue an unequivocal apology."<BR/><BR/>"We'll see."<BR/><BR/>"Paul Kimball"Isaac Koihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04619755188522396631noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1130983651052768982005-11-02T22:07:00.000-04:002005-11-02T22:07:00.000-04:00Rich:I agree with you on the lack of discriminatio...Rich:<BR/><BR/>I agree with you on the lack of discrimination and thought, although I would probably not characterize it as egregious.<BR/><BR/>There's no problem with correcting the record, or, as I've indicated before (many times), a spirited debate. After all, one can't expect others to agree with them all of the time. Heck, historians are still debating the origins of the First World War!<BR/><BR/>The problem is in how one chooses to correct the record. One should always endeavor to do so without the personal stuff (and I haven't always been lilly white in this regard either).<BR/><BR/>It's interesting - I showed some of the ufological back and forth between certain Updaters to friends of mine, all of whom are bright, open-minded people. They just went (I paraphrase), "what took you so long to leave?" A good question. I guess I just like to reform existing structures, as opposed to tearing them down and starting again. Sometimes that may not be enough.<BR/><BR/>Sorry to see you leave the ufological field. Despite our disagreements, I think you had stuff to offer, in your own way. You'll always be welcome to stop by The Other Side of Truth and leave a comment. I figure anyone who really wants to chat with me can do the same. <BR/><BR/>PaulPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1130978789690399832005-11-02T20:46:00.000-04:002005-11-02T20:46:00.000-04:00Sorry, Paul:I was just trying to correct the recor...Sorry, Paul:<BR/><BR/>I was just trying to correct the record.<BR/><BR/>I'm actually planning on pulling the material from the RRRGroup blog and reverting to media only material.<BR/><BR/>In a newscast or newspaper, the restaurant reviewer isn't chastised by readers because the political pundit said something bad about President Bush.<BR/><BR/>There is an egregious lack of discrimination and thought in ufology, and I think enough is enough.<BR/><BR/>RRRRRGrouphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04875523970644487204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1130973630453720222005-11-02T19:20:00.000-04:002005-11-02T19:20:00.000-04:00Aion:Errol the Escalator? Unfortunately, it seems ...Aion:<BR/><BR/>Errol the Escalator? Unfortunately, it seems to fit.<BR/><BR/>Alas, if one he would work to "elevate" the debate.<BR/><BR/>Then he could be... [pause for effect]...<BR/><BR/>Errol the Elevator.<BR/><BR/>PaulPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1130973514402749642005-11-02T19:18:00.000-04:002005-11-02T19:18:00.000-04:00Rich / AH -My code of conduct requires that these ...Rich / AH -<BR/><BR/>My code of conduct requires that these types of things not go on here. <BR/><BR/>Rich, lots of people use pseudonyms on the Net, and given what people like Mr. Lehmberg and Mr. Jay have done, I don't blame them, even as I don't like it. <BR/><BR/>If only everyone could feel free to step out and use their own names. Unfortunately, the activities of people like Mr. Lehmberg and Mr. Jay (and others) prevent that.<BR/><BR/>I can understand why some people still won't use the Internet. There is something to be said for actually getting to know people, face to face (or at least by phone). Like modern warfare, the Internet allows people to slam other people without any thought to the human consequences that follow.<BR/><BR/>Now, behave nicely, or I'll delete further comments. <BR/><BR/>PaulPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1130954088970728892005-11-02T13:54:00.000-04:002005-11-02T13:54:00.000-04:00Let me correct An Historian...We have one e-mail a...Let me correct An Historian...<BR/><BR/>We have one e-mail address where UFO UpDates comes to. (We now have two.)<BR/><BR/>Each person affiliated with us has his or her own e-mail address thusly: rrrgroup@aol.com, rrrgroup@yahoo.com, rrrgroup@hotmail.com and so on.<BR/><BR/>Errol gets mail from me via rrrgroup@gmail.com, which I also use for communicating with the UK UFO crowd.<BR/><BR/>No one hides behind a pseudonym (such as "An Historian") and no one sends material to UFO UpDates but me, using the Juno account which receives the UpDates postings.<BR/><BR/>Your suspicions indicate a narrow paranoia, and this is one thing what makes ufology the blight it has become.<BR/><BR/>RRRRRGrouphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04875523970644487204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1130908120639976082005-11-02T01:08:00.000-04:002005-11-02T01:08:00.000-04:00Aion:I agree that EBK's judgment is lacking, but I...Aion:<BR/><BR/>I agree that EBK's judgment is lacking, but I reserve the term "morally reprehensible" for bigger fish and issues. At the end of the day, this isn't a matter of life and death, after all.<BR/><BR/>And you don't get a confirmation of withdrawal e-mail. You just stop receiving the posts.<BR/><BR/>As for Chris Jay, I see he has accepted a "suspension" from posting at the RRR blog. Alas, that's not enough - what is needed is an unequivocal, public apology from Mr. Jay. Sometimes you just have to admit you went too far, step up, take your medicine, and move on / let the chips fall where they may. People can respect that. <BR/><BR/>PaulPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1130907930211832512005-11-02T01:05:00.000-04:002005-11-02T01:05:00.000-04:00Fatrobot:You are a wise man.PaulFatrobot:<BR/><BR/>You are a wise man.<BR/><BR/>PaulPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1130889026810535812005-11-01T19:50:00.000-04:002005-11-01T19:50:00.000-04:00Isaac:I sympathize. Change is always difficult to ...Isaac:<BR/><BR/>I sympathize. Change is always difficult to embrace (and here I speak of the mechanism for dissemination of information). But so long as Updates continues to tolerate (one might even say encourage) people like Mr. Lehmberg - who in his response to my olive branch today publicly called me, among other things, a Christo-Fascist - then it is ineffective, because many people who may have something to contribute will either leave, or stay away. Further, as I indicated, members of the ufological community who do nothing are effectively aiding and abetting this behaviour, and are demeaning both themselves and the study of the UFO phenomenon in the process.<BR/><BR/>I was unaware of the BUFORA code of conduct, which Joe McGonagle also sent me today, but I'll have a look. Thanks.<BR/><BR/>Updates is not the "Be all and end all" of the Universe. There are other methods of communicating, and there are other forums that could be founded, based on civility, decorum, and basic human decency - again, without limiting the exchange of conflicting views and ideas. Indeed, such a forum would encourage that exchange.<BR/><BR/>Paul KimballPaul Kimballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08804735930733797952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1130869772475780492005-11-01T14:29:00.000-04:002005-11-01T14:29:00.000-04:00Mr T. was right when he said he didn't have time f...Mr T. was right when he said he didn't have time for no jibber jabberfatrobothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17752241795398778737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10903320.post-1130840583818976952005-11-01T06:23:00.000-04:002005-11-01T06:23:00.000-04:00Hi Paul,Whilst I can understand your reasons, I th...Hi Paul,<BR/><BR/>Whilst I can understand your reasons, I think it is a shame that you have withdrawn from Updates. I'm not aware of any better way of sharing views and information with as many people as possible within the ufo "community". Any increase in the existing multitude of communication problems within that "community" will almost inevitably result in even more reinvention of the wheel and inefficient use of time/resources.<BR/><BR/>In relation to a code of conduct for ufology, you may be aware that some attempts have been made in the past to introduce such codes. In the UK, BUFORA's Code of Conduct is reasonably well known. BUFORA has just reorganised its website, and as part of that reorganisation appears to have deleted the Code of Conduct. However, at the moment it is cached at:<BR/>http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:r4DEh5MBJJIJ:www.bufora.org.uk/code_of_practice.htm<BR/><BR/>All the best,<BR/><BR/>IsaacIsaac Koihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04619755188522396631noreply@blogger.com